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Post by MinerMan2010 on Jul 11, 2012 9:38:04 GMT -5
When El Paso joins, they will be taking the Tucson franchise. Tucson currently plays in the Pacific Conference's South Division with Fresno, Las Vegas, and Sacramento. The North Division has Colorado Springs, Reno, Tacoma, and Salt Lake.
In the American conference, the North Division has Memphis, Iowa, Omaha, and Nashville. In the South is Albuquerque, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, and Round Rock.
Right now, we currently would not be in the same conference, let alone same division to our closest opponent. If you look at the South Divison, you can't take out NO, OKC, or RR and ship them out west.
What do you guys think? I really don't think anyone is going to follow the team to Albuquerque even for a big game, but you never know.
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Post by BleedingOrange on Jul 12, 2012 11:14:43 GMT -5
I've never been a huge baseball fan, but I've always enjoyed going to the Diablos games as often as I could. My question with all of this is whether or not this city will even show enough support for another baseball team to merit the multimillion dollar stadium downtown. This is a city that just barely supports the UTEP football and basketball teams (if they're doing well), and has seen minor league hockey, baseball, football, basketball and soccer franchises fold after just two or three years (at most).
I'm all for the new stadium, but from what I've heard, this isn't a guaranteed deal. In other words, there is the possibility that we move City Hall and build this new stadium, using taxpayer money, and then we don't even get a team to play in it. Why not renovate Cohen Stadium to accommodate a larger franchise instead?
I guess I don't know all the details of this deal; but when this city and its politicians have previously rejected Sea World, Six Flags, the Dallas Cowboys and the NBA (to name just a few), I can't believe we're spending such a disgusting amount of money on the mere chance that we can get a baseball team to come here and then somehow keep it from leaving again.
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Post by MinerMan2010 on Jul 12, 2012 11:25:01 GMT -5
Well, I can understand your doubt, but I have a good feeling this is going to be a homerun. Yes, El Paso has not supported a lot of minor league teams here, but this minor league product is big city stuff. The Diablos used to draw well, until they switched to the Dbacks. When was the last time the Diablos finished the season with a winning record?
Seeing a bunch of scrubs with little chance to make the pros does not excite many sports fans. The Diablos can only draw using gimmicks. They suck and good riddance to that pathetic organization.
To answer your question about Cohen, the owners do not want to have the team play there. They want them downtown because they have heavily invested there. The city should renovate Cohen to a big time soccer facility or nice outdoor concert venue.
This team will be as close as El Paso gets to major league anything. Its pretty much a done deal and I do not see this deal falling through.
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Post by strelz on Jul 12, 2012 13:18:01 GMT -5
Minerman I hate to disagree but I really think there are problems with the entire deal...any elected official going along with this will never get re-elected...it should have gone to the public for a vote before anything was done...mark my words!
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Post by MinerMan2010 on Jul 12, 2012 14:39:41 GMT -5
You're right Strelz, it should have gone to public vote. I still think it will end up being a great thing for the city.
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Post by mistabinks on Jul 12, 2012 23:15:03 GMT -5
I've never been a huge baseball fan, but I've always enjoyed going to the Diablos games as often as I could. My question with all of this is whether or not this city will even show enough support for another baseball team to merit the multimillion dollar stadium downtown. I think so. Under Jim Paul, we routinely led the Texas league in attendance. Promotions and freebies aside, El Paso supported the team by purchasing tickets. We even set records during our first year as an independent team. El Paso supports baseball. It's not fair to blame falling attendance on El Paso. The quality of the current Diablos is sub par but ticket prices are the same as when we were an AA team. Would you pay Tinseltown prices to watch a movie at Montwood theater? This is a city that just barely supports the UTEP football and basketball teams (if they're doing well), and has seen minor league hockey, baseball, football, basketball and soccer franchises fold after just two or three years (at most). That is a loaded and unfair statement. 20K (football) and 7K (basketball) are not acceptable numbers. We should be doing a lot better. Yet, there are A LOT of schools that would love to change places with us. We are doing bad by our own standards and potential. Not necessarily in the big picture. Two of the arena football leagues folded due to bad management and not lack of support. Buzzards Hockey? That was a blast. I'm all for the new stadium, but from what I've heard, this isn't a guaranteed deal. In other words, there is the possibility that we move City Hall and build this new stadium, using taxpayer money, and then we don't even get a team to play in it. Not true at all. The construction of the stadium will only commence if the PCL approves the sale. Even then, the team has to stay in El Paso for 25 years. There will be an election this November to approve a two percent raise in Hotel Taxes to pay for 70% of the stadium. If that votes doesn't pass, the stadium will be built from the City's general fund. Why not renovate Cohen Stadium to accommodate a larger franchise instead? Many people assume The City is bringing in a baseball team. In reality, Foster & Hunt are buying the team and relocating the team to El Paso with their own money. This was contingent on The City building a new downtown stadium. Could Cohen, or any other location, be used? Sure. That offer wasn't on the table though. This one was. While a couple of AAA ball clubs have been sold in the last couple of years, it really is a rare and big deal to have the opportunity to get a AAA club. I guess I don't know all the details of this deal; but when this city and its politicians have previously rejected Sea World, Six Flags, the Dallas Cowboys and the NBA (to name just a few), I can't believe we're spending such a disgusting amount of money on the mere chance that we can get a baseball team to come here and then somehow keep it from leaving again. Myself, I don't know the true details of what went down with Six Flags. I did not know there was a situation with the Cowboys or the NBA. If the comments on FB and the EP Times are any indication, there is probably A LOT more rumors than facts to those stories. Again, we will build a stadium if the PCL approves the sale and Foster & Hunt actually buy the team. The team will not be able to move for at least 25 years. Foster & Hunt purchasing the team was contingent on The City building a downtown stadium. Regarding City Hall, The City has been talking about moving City Hall for quite some time. City Hall isn't being demolished just to build a baseball stadium. There was a 2010 article in the EP Times talking about how badly a move, or major renovation, was needed. Sure, the City Manager is getting what she wants (a new City Hall) by using the construction of a baseball stadium. Foster & Hunt are sure to make a nice profits with their properties downtown. People are going to make money off of this. I am not sure why that offends so many. |
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Post by MinerMan2010 on Jul 13, 2012 0:30:40 GMT -5
Well said Mista. I have also heard about Six Flags and Sea World. Rumor has it that El Paso was approached before San Antonio was to put one/both here and city officials didn't give enough incentive.
The Dallas Cowboys "wanted" to have their training camp here after the successful scrimmages. However, the city shot down that idea too and Jerry Jones went elsewhere and hasn't been back since.
Not sure what NBA thing BO is referring to. I can tell you that no NBA team has ever been considered here. Maybe an NBADL team. Hopefully BO can fill us in.
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Post by mistabinks on Jul 13, 2012 14:53:10 GMT -5
Does anyone have any actual links or sources for the Six Flags, Sea World, and Cowboy stories?
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Post by MinerMan2010 on Jul 13, 2012 23:18:08 GMT -5
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Post by BleedingOrange on Jul 15, 2012 1:49:29 GMT -5
Thanks for filling me in on some of the details, binks. I feel a little better about the whole deal if what you said above is true. My only question is in regard to your comment that my assessment of the support shown to the basketball and football teams is "loaded and unfair." How was it loaded, and why is it unfair to ask people to show up to the first few games of a season instead of making the players perform for a crowd that's around 20% capacity, and only get the satisfaction of seeing a full arena after they've "proven" themselves? I'm a season ticket holder for basketball, and try to go to at least 3 or 4 football games each year, and it never seems that the teams get as much fan support as I think they should. I know we do better attendance-wise than some other programs, but when UTEP sports are just about the biggest form of entertainment in this town, you'd think more people would show up. Just my opinion, but I don't think that's too far from the truth. As far as my claims about the other stuff we've lost, I have done some digging in the past but would have to do more research to provide links (other than what MM did above). This is what I did find about Sea World, though: www.city-data.com/forum/el-paso/136014-el-paso-needs-six-flags-theme.htmlI know that link was just another anonymous post on a message board, but it shows that I'm not the only one who has heard that story. The rumors I've heard say that Sea World was all but committed to build here IF the Six Flags deal went through, which it never did. When we lost SF, we lost SW with it, so no official records of any sort of deal with Sea World would exist. As far as the NBA comment, this may be pure myth, but I also heard that when the Dallas Chaparrals of the defunct ABA were struggling in Dallas, they were looking for another city to relocate the franchise, and El Paso was one of their early targets. When the city couldn't reach a deal (again, according to legend), a group in San Antonio happily grabbed the team, renamed them the San Antonio Gunslingers, and that early incarnation is now the San Antonio Spurs. I wish I could provide cold, hard facts to back up my statements, but I admit to the possibility that a lot of it is speculation and/or exaggeration. I listed all that stuff in my last post out of frustration because I've heard so many persistent rumors about all the awesome stuff San Antonio has today because El Paso stiff-armed these opportunities instead of grabbing them with both hands. And finally, *sob* I miss the Buzzards. |
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Post by strelz on Jul 15, 2012 10:14:45 GMT -5
The Buzzards! Yes! It was great times.
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Post by mistabinks on Jul 15, 2012 12:13:49 GMT -5
My only question is in regard to your comment that my assessment of the support shown to the basketball and football teams is "loaded and unfair." How was it loaded, and why is it unfair to ask people to show up to the first few games of a season instead of making the players perform for a crowd that's around 20% capacity, and only get the satisfaction of seeing a full arena after they've "proven" themselves? I thought it was loaded and unfair because the ticket buying public wasn't at fault for all the franchises you mentioned. We didn't lose two arena football teams because of a lack of ticket sales. We didn't lose the Buzzards because of a lack of ticket sales. Regarding UTEP athletics, I also disagree with you. The bigger crowds are at the beginning of the season when the teams are unproven. Yes, losses to translate to smaller crowds. That is why we are approaching 50% of capacity in football in attendance. Except for a few Sunday afternoon basketball games, I have never attended a UTEP football or basketball game with only 20% of capacity in attendance. Not even football in November. |
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Post by BleedingOrange on Jul 17, 2012 0:26:26 GMT -5
I wasn't blaming the ticket sales for the other franchises folding; that was mostly a knock on the attendance of UTEP sports.
And while the 20% figure was an exaggeration, you can't tell me that there aren't too many empty seats in the stands even when we're winning. How many sellouts has the Don seen in the last 10 years? And I'm not talking about ticket sales, I'm talking about asses physically in the seats. Even in big games, I see too much orange plastic in the stands.
Anyway, I didn't mean to spark a debate over our different perceptions; I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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